This is Part 2 of our fascinating interview with Jess. Co-founder of Square One Coffee Roasters, Jess Steffy, talks about starting a coffee farm from scratch and where she sees the future of coffee going.
Sovda Sensory Square One Interview Part 2 v2
Nicholas Flatoff: [00:00:00] Okay. So basically starting a farm from scratch and I don't want to get like so deep in there that we're here, you know, seven podcast episodes, but what was the thought process? I think the first three things that are coming to my mind is the soil preparation and viability. If you had to do anything with that. Two: varietal and what you considered in choosing that, and then three: some of the weird stuff like splicing Robusta roots on and different things like that. If you had to do any of that weird stuff with the crop to get it where it needs to be.
Jess Steffy: [00:00:00] I wasn't there for that. I didn't do that myself. I've been a part of more of those things in Kenya. And then it was so funny. I had, you're not always able to get a pure cup of just one varietal, there's lots mixed in. So if you're able to taste them all, then even sometimes there's other variables. So you're not, not necessarily a hundred percent sure that you walk away from a cupping table knowing what your preferred variety is necessarily. So I was really fortunate to, over the course of about four years, and so it's different harvests, different microclimates around Kenya different variables had enough positive experiences with one type of coffee variety, and enough positive experiences hearing about that from the farmers and what the yield was and how the inputs required for that coffee, how fussy it is on from the farmer's perspective, led me to the conclusion that for Kenya, Batian was the variety that was like the one that should be planted. And I'm basically looking at it like this could be future job security for all these orphan kids. The unemployment rate in Kenya is through the roof, like getting jobs and just knowing you're going to have a source of income is a huge, huge issue. So like we had a group of the kids at that micro-community who were like the largest group, like the baby boomers of that community were all getting ready to graduate in the next three years. And that was a couple of years ago. So they've graduated now. And that kind of lit me up with a sense of urgency, like, cause I know these, these kids, where are they going to go? Like, I felt like they were my kids and I have a 13 year old and a 16 year old. So it's not far off. I'm like already thinking about like job positioning and skills versus passion and all these things. They're like, well, you just don't have as many options, but this could be another option, coffee farming.
And I actually had to really do a lot of research into the life and the, the... it's not easy work. Like, I don't know, would you want your son or daughter to do the work? Like do a little bit of investigation before you're like, here's a new job, everyone. And so I did, I had to do a little bit of soul searching to be like, how sustainable is this? Is it? But you know, I came to that conclusion and right around that same exact time, I think it would have been 2015, 2016, the government decided to start giving Batian away for free, just totally subsidized giving it away because they're trying to encourage it. So it's like, if I would have done none of the work, the same conclusion would have happened. The government shows up, it was like, here, we're trying to do this. This is we're encouraging it. And I'm like, I've been saying this for four years, come on! But, but yeah, so that project's moving and I do know, just so much more about the hybrids and the way that they impact cup quality in Kenya, that coffee research Kenya is working on.
So in Honduras they had planted it what was already in the region, which is a hybrid and it is a little more Robusta heavy. I would need to pull up my, I could pull it up to double check. I don't want to say the wrong name. And then they were, just recently, donated a bunch more plants, but they didn't want to accept them unless they like checked to make sure. So they were, they were like, we have this opportunity and how should we proceed? And I had to do research into that variety because it wasn't one I was familiar with. So I'm digging up whatever... I didn't have options for, for that. So if, but as we grow there, there'll be, it's hilarious because coffee was their small side project and they really had a lot of other irons in the fire and they need to because their... They have a whole community that they're looking to get sustainably funded. And coffee's just the side piece that I was been ringing the bell, trying to help them understand it could be not just financially, but like really grabbing interest from North America to tell the story of what's going on with a tangible product that they can hold, not just like other organizations that support kids, where you're sending checks.
Like you could actually just be buying coffee that you already - something you already like, and really supporting this cause really just engaging a wider audience and even potentially growing what they do and being able to increase what they're able to do and how they're able to do it.
Nicholas Flatoff: [00:00:00] Right. It's like we have the, we have the ability and frankly, after 21 years in business, why not mess around and have a little side project just for the sake of personal development. You know, if you're, if you're just satisfied with buying green coffee, roasting it, processing it well, and shipping it out... I think that the people who wind up in coffee are really passionate about coffee and they love coffee. So you get to a point where you've got a nice stable business. You got good products. You've got loyal customers. Yeah. The cash is there. Like if you don't do it, what else are you going to do? More cuppings? Like we all have a maximum caffeine capacity.
Jess Steffy: [00:00:00] No, it's true. It's true. And our team is getting, they realize it, what the level of partnership is here. Cause not everyone gets it. We're still also working on telling the story same with the Sovda, like, glossy brochure to follow, but we don't have it yet. So we're working on our storytelling to help even our own team understand it. But my director of wholesale, when I was telling him about what I paid for this coffee, he just, he cause he runs the numbers and he's in charge of making sure we're profitable, and this is a decision that really like, I mean, once he understood what I was doing and why, he picked his jaw up off the floor and was totally stoked and onboard and like, okay, well I'm gonna help us figure out how to sell it all. Like, yeah. Cause it's a new coffee and we weren't necessarily ready. We [were] thinking 3000 pounds last year, all of a sudden, almost 8,000 this year, so ahhh, okay!
And you know, after COVID, we're a little long on some coffees he did pretty well on it, but you know, so it's just like, okay, we've got to make sure we find homes for this coffee. And he is just like, stoked about it now. But like, it was hilarious because it's such an anticapitalist move that I had to even convince my own team as the owner, that it was a smart move that we should do it. I was like, it's an investment. And if we go and we don't break even on it, like if we are in the red on it, that's a donation. So what are we losing here? Come on. We're going to be fine. It's okay. You're all having jobs still. Everything's going to be fine. We're we're, we're sticking our neck out on this coffee and yeah, so far so good. So...
Nicholas Flatoff: [00:00:00] Maybe this is too much of a diatribe again, but you know, I remember when I came of age, you could go and get a pint of craft beer for two or three bucks at a local bar, which is about what a shot of espresso would cost was $2-3. Now it's, in Portland at least, you're dropping eight, nine bucks for a beer. And I just had an anaerobic Costa Rica, geisha espresso yesterday cost me $3.50, right? Like you've got these, whether it's just purely coffee and purely the quality only, you kind of only have the option of an $18 bag of coffee, or like a $65 bag of coffee. And there's nothing in between. And there's this price floor is just that there I'll gladly pay five or $6 for a shot of espresso in Portland that's a high quality well-sourced, you know, living income throughout the supply chain. And I don't think that I'm alone in that. Maybe I am stuck in my own little echo chamber being in the coffee industry and being in Portland, etc.. But I think most people would be okay with a dollar or two added to an espresso.
And so, yeah, it just seems like there's some upward movement there where when people hear about the story, they become excited about the story. They're willing to pay more for the coffee. That can still be a capitalist, right? Quote, air quotes, capitalistic move. If he says it's, it's fundamentally, it's a, it's a better product that you can feel better about buying and it's worth it to the consumer to pay a little bit more for it. It doesn't need to be all a margin squeeze, I guess is the point.
Jess Steffy: [00:00:00] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, sometimes we could charge more and have a premium on it, and then that would give us a cut. That's fine. But for this one, I was like, well, the quality level matches our lower tier coffees. So we're going to stick it out there at that.
Actually, no, we're going to do $1 more because I don't want to totally remove market share from my main coffees. Everyone just go for the cheapest coffee on my menu. So it's there for a reason that for just that slight premium, but yeah, I'm not worried about people not wanting to pay it once they know the story for sure.
But yeah, again, donating all of it. Yeah. Coming up with a, a seal to put on it, but like a hundred percent of the proceeds go back to the, to the farm and you know, there's so many seals on everything. I feel like it's just so much noise. Getting your story through the noise is everybody's challenge. I think. Supplemental stuff that tells the story and, you know, social media using using that, to tell the story, working on that. Something I'm listening to a lot of the conversation around right now, I'm trying to come to a conclusion. It's not often that I don't have a really strong opinion, but I'm on the fence because of all the travels that I've done and seeing, well, the I'm just talking about the ethics around marketing coffee when you're using farmers faces, and I know seasonal coffee pickers, getting them in action and stuff.
And I've used those images provided by my importers or ones I've taken myself at the farm level and stuff, and I don't feel a hundred percent comfortable right now, marketing coffees using images if I haven't, if I don't know the person or if I haven't like, gotten their permission and maybe that's overly sensitive and sometimes I've talked to the importer about it and they're like, no, no, we make sure everybody's cool. If, when we're taking pictures and anyone doesn't want to be photographed, we don't. And then I just know, sometimes there's just no permission asked and like their, their, their image, their likeness is being used to market and sell product. And I don't even know if they know about it sometimes. So it's like, I have weird feelings about that. I don't think it's like the worst evil in the entire world, obviously, but I've, I'm looking to do no harm and build these long-term relationships. So if I'm truly building these long-term relationships, can't I just say "hey is it cool if I use your picture or do you have one you prefer me to use" or "what's the, what's the story you'd like to tell if you had the mic and my readers were able to hear your two cents, what would that be?" rather than my waxing poetic about why this coffee is so great, like, so I'm on the fence about it. I've see companies who do it in a way that I can admire others, do it in a way that looks great, but then I have questions. Others just make me feel weird. So I'm like kind of, that's something I'm interested in right now is like, you know, you've heard the story now, how do I tell it? And how do I do it in a way that like dignifies and amplifies voices that want to be amplified and heard and faces that want to be seen. So that's my current conundrum.
Nicholas Flatoff: [00:00:00] This reminds me there there's a shop up in Spokane, Vessel. They went to no tipping and they were pretty early on it. I don't remember the year it was, but it was before Seattle raised minimum wage.
So when you came in and you tried to tip, they would say we have a living wage model here and we don't accept tips because we've added costs to the price of the coffee in order to ensure that everybody here is making a livable wage. And that was just how they handled it. They didn't advertise it. They didn't, you know, blow it up all over the place on Facebook. They were just like, Hey, we don't accept tips. And me as a consumer, you know, if I'm just going and trying to find a bag of coffee and I see one where it's like, just, you know, fine print all farmers, double dash, including pickers double dash are paid a living wage and the supply chain on this coffee for more info go here. And then you can maybe read about the story, etc.
I think that the key thing is rather than, because you can get into like the wine industry, side of things where you're telling us, you know, beautiful, you know, seventh generation family story and there's value there. People are really interested in it. But I think that the biggest value is that you're not actually making the world slightly worse by buying the bag of coffee, right. You know, if it's in there and it's like, Hey, this is actually okay. If the market was efficient, this is what this bag of coffee would cost. And you're not taking from anybody by purchasing in that way. You know, environmental impacts etc., because that I think is what I'm most excited about as a consumer is actually kind of getting the market recalibrated more and seeing the Pearl working in that process.
Jess Steffy: [00:00:00] To that end hearing people who are working in coffee, and then aren't anymore having to go in as a consumer and pay for coffee and feel the sting of it in a way they hadn't before with all the free coffee, that one perk that you get (pun intended) of working in coffee is not really having to pay much for it. And then when it hurts your wallet it hurts your wallet, and then seeing, oh man, I see why all my customers, one of my friends commented, I see why all my customers were so pissed when a whole industry moved from one pound bags to 12 ounce bags. As a home user, okay, awesome. Now I have to buy two of these every time I go, because one isn't going to get me fully through the week like my one pound bag did or whatever, or, and just trying to kind of jump over into the customer's shoes a little bit more these days and go, what's practical, despite whatever the reasons that we all switched down to a smaller size bag, like, is there a way that I think we did it because we wanted to command that higher price without a sticker shock of that number, what it would have been in a one pound bag.
So we're like we can keep the price the same, but we're just going to put less in the bag. And you know, how you feel about a bag of chips when it's I know they have to do that for chips because of the crunch. Or the breakage. So that's a bad example, but you know, like I get why we did it, but I think we're moving to a place where we can have a two pound bag and charge the right price for it. And people are gonna appreciate having the option. Like it's a different, it's a different day. And I appreciate it. I like... this falls squarely under the category of specialty coffee pulling the stick out of its ass. Like, Ooh, no, you, you should be buying it more often, so we have to have it in this small six ounce quantity. It's so precious. Buy many, and that way you're not breaking the seal and opening it and do it in a... like treating somebody's home kitchen, like a competition barista. When that's not, not how it works at all. And I'm doing eco pods right now a lot, because it's really quick and really easy. And I'm tasting a lot of coffee. And if I want to have a cup of coffee, that's really nice. I'll make time for it. But on the way out the door here and there, like we just started putting our coffee in compostable eco pods so now I don't feel like I'm contributing to a landfill in the same way. And the eco pods hold 40% more coffee than what you normally get in a normal K-cup so the balance and the brew ratio isn't as messed up. It's actually pretty decent. So there's a plug for that. And this Honduran coffees available in those pods too, because we're just looking for ways to get it in people's hands.
Nicholas Flatoff: [00:00:00] And where can people buy those?
Jess Steffy: [00:00:00] That is www.squareonecoffee.com
Nicholas Flatoff: [00:00:00] It's a cool story. It's a great product. It does seem like there's a shift towards a little bit more automation. I've had two people picking up these actually decent quality, super auto espresso machines that they're servicing now for their cafes. I'm seeing that a little bit more and like, you know, it is kinda, consistency's been a little bit more of a problem in specialty coffee in the last four years.
The fun thing about being in such an emerging industry is that there is still a ton to stay busy with, you know? Okay. You figured out roasting, you figured out competitions go help, make a community better by assisting, starting a farm. There's not a whole lot of industries where you can go from that to that by just being good at what you do.
Jess Steffy: [00:00:00] It has definitely not been boring. I haven't done any other job. I mean, I got started in this pretty young, but like, I'm not one of those people I could imagine, like working a job for a decade or more. And I have some people on my team have worked for us for over 10 years. So I'm just like, whoa, you're my hero. I want to be you when I grew up, but I don't get the credit because it's my business. It's my company. So I'm working for myself and yeah, I haven't worked over a decade for another company, so I don't know what that's like, but I do know that I get bored easily. And if there's not a challenge and my team isn't - we're in the same boat.
Nicholas Flatoff: [00:00:00] The last question that I ask everybody is, you know, what's your favorite industry prediction for now in the next five years within specialty coffee?
Jess Steffy: [00:00:00] Industry prediction... we're already seeing like Robusta and R grader certification and people trying to de-stigmatize it. And we've sold coffees that were hybrids and heavy on Robusta for awhile and been like, Hey, they can be good, you can do this. Like, it's like, don't knock it till you actually try it, like taste it. And judging barista competitions, I've seen some of my more, more compelling presentations I sat out at the world level and at the US level involve climate change. So I feel like when you're talking future and you're talking coffee, you got to think climate and where do we go if our coffee goes and as our coffee goes, and so prediction would be new growing regions, new varietals, new hybrids, new flavor profiles, new expectations for what coffee tastes like, and for what's palatable, darker roasts to accommodate for some flavors that aren't as appealing because darker roast can hide a multitude of flavor imperfections if needed and less shame about it, too. Less shame about some dark roasts. Also I'll call out a current trend that I see. And that may, may be just me, you know, when you bought the car, you see it everywhere, but like the acidity level in coffee is something that I've seen some pretty large pushback on a consumer level. From 2007 to 2014, it was like, tell me, what's good. I believe you. And I appreciated their trust and ability. And now they're like, sure, you might say that's good, but my stomach can't handle it. What else do you got? So that is a trend that I don't think is going anywhere. And I think it might coincide nicely with some darker. And some lower acidic, lower altitude coffees. If people's stomachs are seizing up, with the acidity, and they're not able to, and I'm getting old, whatever, but I heard younger people say this too, so it's not just grandma coffee over here. And I think, you know, there's enough acid reflux whatever's going on for people that I'm not alone in this. I do believe.
And also decaf. I think with anxiety, there's enough people self-identifying as like, I need less caffeine, not more. It's jacking me up and making me think the world's going to end when I'm totally fine. Like I need, I need less. So decaf. A resurgence in decaf, I predict.
Nicholas Flatoff: [00:00:00] I do have a decaf geisha sitting right here.
Jess Steffy: [00:00:00] I have not heard of decaf geisha yet. Oh my gosh. That's a first!
Nicholas Flatoff: [00:00:00] It's a natural. Decaf natural geisha. Oh, we just tasted yeah, I think Royal coffee has a Guatemala decaf that we did a blind cupping of on Monday and it blew me away. I would love to see so much more good decaf, you know, for, for me it, my, my dad he's all there mentally, he had a stroke going on three years ago, also super into specialty coffee loves a good cup of coffee and he had to step back his caffeine a ton in recovering from that. And there, you know, I mean, shout out to Ruby because they were doing a really good decaf at the time, he's in Wisconsin. But it was just so, so tricky for him to track down something that fit the bill for what he was used to, that he could still drink.
And that's it, the medical condition thing, like right now, I'd love to have a cup of coffee. It's kind of too late for me already, you know?
Jess Steffy: [00:00:00] Absolutely. I can't, if I want to have good sleep, I can't do it after 4:00 PM and sometimes 3:00 PM. And I'll find that out when it's too late, but yeah, I think that Drink Good Decaf is the new, and we it's our it's our, we have posters and slogans and stickers and some things, cause we were really trying to do a little push and that'll happen again before the pandemic, so we'll pick it up again, coming up here soon, but like, you know, all the Death Before Decaf tattoos, we're replacing it with Drink Good Decaf, with the same sort of like styling of it. So it's like trying to take back the night with some coffee, or the early afternoon. Our decaf wins sometimes on blind cuppings. It's good. It's real good. It's some people's favorite coffee on the table and I've scored it just as high as some of our highest scoring coffees on the table. We're buying really delicious high quality decaf, but yeah, more decaf and more easy sippers.
Nicholas Flatoff: [00:00:00] Very cool! Well with that, Jess, thank you so much for your time today. We're just going to get one final shout out for Jess so you can find out where to find her coffee and get more information on Square One.
Jess Steffy: [00:00:00] Yes, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter as Square One Coffee, all spelled out O-N-E, Square One Coffee, and then our website is www.squareonecoffee.com
Nicholas Flatoff: [00:00:00] Awesome! Jess, thanks for joining us.
Jess Steffy: [00:00:00] Thanks so much for having me!